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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  June 27, 2014 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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fed up. let's play "hardball.." good evening. i'm in for chris matthews. let me start with the opposition to poeb's agenda. it's been loud but not like this. calls for impeachment, show trials and select committee investigations, talk about taking president to court for the kinds of things his predecessor did with impunity. when your peace won't let you do anything, gum up the works and blame the guy in charge. scorched earth is the republican party's agenda. scary as it seems it's working. this week it became clear the president had enough. today on the road in minneapolis he told crowds he didn't care about being politically correct anymore.
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the portrait of a president who is fed up. >> today even basic common sense ideas can't get through this congress. sometimes i'm supposed to be, you know, politic about how i say things. i'm finding lately that i just want to say what's on my mind. [ cheers and applause ] i'm not sure which of the things i have done they find most offensive. they have decided they will sue me for doing my job. i want to work with you. but you've got to give me something. you've got to try to deliver something. they don't do anything! except block me. and call me names. >> that was just the beginning of the attacks on republicans. here's more from the president.
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>> so far this year republicans in congress blocked or voted down every single serious idea to strengthen the middle class. you may think i'm exaggerating. let me go through the list. they have said no to raising the minimum wage. they have said no to fair pay. rather than invest in working families getting ahead, they voted to give anothers massive tax cut to the wealthiest americans. [ booing ] >> don't boo. i want you to vote. >> david corn is a washington analyst with moth jones and david jones for time magazine. i think this is what hollywood has told us we want in our presidents, what we want in public officials. he screw the script away, threw the jacket away. there were teleprompters but maybe not turned on.
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the performance art i get. david, watching this today, we don't see this obama all the time. what's your reaction? >> you know, i think it is a little bit too late in the sense that we have had almost six years now of republican obstructionism which is their right. they want to block the president, fine. too often we have had asymmetrical warfare where the president tries to be the adult in the room, tries to strike compromises his own base would be upset with aspects of it. he can't find anyone on the other side and hasn't come out often and explained what's going on in a way that gets the public to choose a side. >> let me ask this. you're saying should have done it soon sh, talked this way sooner, called out republicans sooner. what would have happened if in 2010s this is how he was talking? >> i don't know. 2010 is close to the election.
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right now, mothing will happen legislatively. an immigration, minimum wanl. the only thing he can play for is to win the political story. it's a cliche but to win the political narrative. he could have started earlier. if you have met the president people know he's a great sense of sarcastic humor which he doesn't use much. i like that in a guy. i think we could see more of that. it could have helped him maybe through the last year or two. >> michael, is this part of a strategy? did the president wake up today or decide this week there is something to get off my chest, or is there a longer term game the white house is playing, starting, kicking off with the speech? is there a follow up, a strategy at work? >> the content stuff we have heard before. what's different is the style. there is absolutely a strategy. they have to have a story line. they have to get the basics. the polls show democrats are in
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for a beating this year. democrats probably aren't going to turn out like they did in 2012. he's got to get that group who come out animated about this election. it's a really difficult thing for him to do. there is not much historical precedent for him to do it. for most sitting presidents to do it in off-year elections. he's making it personal, reminding people why they liked him in the first place. he's still among the most likable of the people in washington which isn't saying much. it's like being the tallest guy in kindergarten or something. they created this here comes the bear narrative which has the effect of covering up for the fact that his biggest pob is he can't do what he said he would do in the last election. he sold the last elections as elect me and the fever will break. the fever hasn't broken. he doesn't have a way to beak the fever. he looks will like a lame duck.
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this next election probably won't get there. he said don't embrace cynicism, keep the hope alive. that's probably the message he needs to use. >> today's remarks going after republicans are the latest in a string of attacks the president launched against the hard rigid roocht wednesday he ridiculed the red hots for claiming ignorance on global warming. >> they ducked the question. they said, hey, i'm not a scientist. which really translates into "i accept that man made climate change is real, but if i say so out loud i will be run out of town by a bunch of fringe elements that think climate science is a liberal plot, so i will pretend like -- i don't know -- i can't read." [ applause ] >> in an interview yesterday with george stephanopoulos he slammed john boehner's planned lawsuit. >> you notice he didn't specifically say what exactly he
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was objecting to. i'm not going to apologize for trying to do something while they are doing nothing. >> even if you get sued? >> you know, the suit is a stunt. >> michael started to get into the implications for 2014. we can state the obvious here. republicans are heavily favored to keep the house. a real chance they will pick up the senate. no one is talking about, hey, after the 2014 elections they will not get it back this fall. what can the president achieve if this is the new barack obama we are going to see for the next few months, if that sarcasm becomes his thing and catches on, what politically with can he achieve here? >> there is a lot to be said for retaining the senate. at least in terms of appoints and so on. and not having to start vetoing laws that may be passed by republican-controlled congress on both sides. there is a real strategic aim
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here which is to not lose the senate. you know, i think it's clear that as the republicans, i think john boehner is playing to the tea party crowd with this lawsuit. he's not giving them legislation. he also hears calls for impeachment from his side. he knows, as does the white house, that nothing would help obama's democratic prospects in the fall better than a real impeachment campaign mounted by republicans. look what happened with the thad cochran race this week. the if you start attacking obama directly in a lot of ways, it will get the base riled up. that will work. so today or yesterday, the day they announced the lawsuit which isn't really real yet. the democratic campaign committee for house candidates raised the most money in a single day than ever before. >> well, yeah. that's something i want to figure out here. you mention -- think of it this
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way. there is the irs, benghazi, all of the investigations the republicans want to launch, that they have launched in some cases. you could clearly see the energy you are talking about when you mention impeachment, that is among other things a base that's fired up, that wants to get out there and vote this fall. michael, when you compare the obama you're seeing now, the obama you are hearing from now in terms of energizing the democratic base, this message of, hey, the republicans, all they want to do is pick on me, they don't want to let me get my agenda through, how does that work comparatively in terms of firing uh the democratic base? >> not so much. he's got less to work with. the democratic base comes out for him. they don't necessarily. come out for representative so and so or senator so and so. his problem is he's not on the ballot. a lot of people he's been able to bring to the poll hs in 2008 and 2012 which was revolutionary elections in terms of getting young people, nonwhite voters to
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come out, women to come out. big election numbers -- >> how can they do that this fall? >> there is a model for that. i don't want to be pollyanna at all. terry mcauliff's campaign used some of the same modeling to get out an electorate that was reflective of the obama electorate and actually worked. it took time, talent and money to do that. i don't know if you can do it everywhere. it is sort of working at a disadvantage. there are things that can be done on the ground maybe from 30,000 feet where the president operates, to increase the democratic odds. >> virginia has the power of negative motivation. were with they turning out because they were scared of ken c are uc are inelli? maybe they can turn them into
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that. they may not need much help. thank you. appreciate it. coming up, cheney versus clinton. not hillary. bill. bill clinton calls out cheney for bungling the war in iraq and cheney hits back the only way he knows how. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle immigration is dead this year and maybe longer. plus, perhaps the most bizarre example of obama derangement syndrome we have seen yet from a fox news guest who sees the world cups as part of the obama conspiracy. let me start with why voter short term memory may be a good thing for a candidate in 2016. this is "hardball," the place for politics. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs.
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and still have time to spare. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business. built for business. welcome back to "hardball." for six years dick cheney has been theth's strongest credit on foreign policy accusing him of making the country less safe and abandoning our allies over seas. those attacks have gone into hyper drive in recent weeks. >> he's very, very weak president. maybe the weakest in my lifetime. i think he's dead wrong in terms of the course he's taken the nation. i think we are in for big trouble in the years ahead because of his refusal to recognize reality. >> the president said he's not responsible. i assume you don't agree with that? >> i don't. we now have a terrible, difficult situation on our hands primarily both malaki and obama.
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>> the policies of the last six years left america diminished and weakened. our enemies no longer fear us. our allies no longer trust us. >> in a wall street journal op-ed the former vice president and his daughter wrote rarely has a u.s. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many. you might have missed the the irony but stephen colbert exists to point it out. >> yes. rarely, maybe only one other time. >> this week in an interview with david gregory bill clinton stepped into the fight. >> mr. cheney has been incredibly adroit for the last six years or so attacking the administration for not doing an adequate job of cleaning up the mess that he made. i think it's unseemly. i give president bush, by the way, a lot of credit for trying to stay out of the debate and
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letting other people work through it. >> the vice president fired back saying in montana, "if there is somebody who knows something about unseemly, it's bill clinton." dick cheney versus bill clinton. who wins this political slugfest? michelle bernard from are the center for whip, politics and public policy and squoe watkins, republican strategist. going right to it, i guess it is a half joke, half attack there. you know, bill clinton should know something about unseemly. we know what that is referring to. is it right for a former vice president to talk this way? maybe it's a reflection of the times we live in or is there a standard to adhere to? >> those are excellent questions. i don't know. all i can tell you is intuitively it feels wrong. what's happening in iraq, in the middle east directly impacts the
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national security interests of every single american. to me you would think the vice president would trade delicately and not make the country look weak in the eyes of would be terrorists. frankly, i spent the afternoon trying to figure out why on earth would the former vice president do this. then i realized he and his daughter liz are are starting this 501-c-4 political sort of sem political organization called an alliance for a stronger america. what their mission statement says is they are here to try to reverse the policieses of the obama administration which they believe are threatening the national security interests of america. maybe this is about fund-raising, if national security will be an issue in the 2016 election. maybe this is a way for the former vice president to say to whomever he thinks his base is, give us money so we can reverse, put in the right candidates and
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reverse the policies of president obama in 2016. >> in the tv clip we showed liz cheney is with him. she has her name on the op-ed. clearly this is to get liz advanced. the senate race in wyoming didn't work out. the other thing is the response from dick cheney. we have only the quote. apparently the audience cheered when he said bill clinton should know about unseemly. the question i have for you as a republican is are listening to republicans talk about bill clinton for six years after the 2008 election, i thought republicans had gotten over it and decided they liked bill clinton after all. is that changing now? >> well, this kind of argument doesn't help what's happening in iraq. right now we have a very dangerous are sectarian war going on and the hope is that some solution can be found to isis which is advancing. as we speak taking over new
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citieses every day. it's unfortunate the argument between former vice president dick cheney and former president bill clinton has gotten to this. >> it sounds like he got a good response from the audience. it's wyoming. i assume it is a republican audience there. is this a preview? does that stuff still sell? we saw the conspiracy stuff in the '90s about the clintons. go through the list of stuff from the 1990s. the audience eats it up when dick cheney puts it out there. is that a preview of what we'll hear for a couple of years if the clintons run again? >> i don't think so. i think maybe that day to that audience it might have been a good one-liner that got a response from folks. at the end of the day america doesn't win if this is about beating up former presidents for past indiscretions. we have to look to the future, look forward to a spirited 2016
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presidential campaign that talks about new ideas and directions for the country to make us a great country. it ought not be about president bill clinton. it ought to be about who the democratic nominee is and whoever the republican nominee happens to be. i think they will work hard to get people to the forefront. it ought not be personal, petty and small and about beating up a former president. >> what's politics if not personal, petty and small. this week on fox, vice president cheney accused the president of decimating the pentagon. let's watch. >> it's not just about iraq. it's the fact that now iraq and syria are both potential trouble spots. as we see this proliferation of terrorists we have an administration that didn't want to recognize the problem. they like to say, we got bin laden, problem solved. or we decimated al qaeda. what they have decimated is the u.s. defense department. >> he had similar criticisms in
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montana this week. >> when i was secretary we had a two-war strategy. we had to maintain sufficient forces to fight two wars at once. he switched that. now we are going to have a one-war strategy. that's all being done as a rationale to justify further deep cutses in the defense budget so he can allocate money to food stamps and whatever else he wants to spend on. >> david gregory asked president clinton about that. >> former vice president dick cheney said of president obama in an op-ed that claims that al qaeda is decimated is clearly not true, that in fact al qaeda is on the march. the argument that america is less safe under president obama. do you believe dick cheney is a credible critic on these matt matters? [ laughter ] >> well, i believe if they hadn't gone to war in iraq none of this would be happening. [ applause ] >> it wouldn't be happening in syria?
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there wouldn't be terrorist actors? >> it might be happening in syria. what happened in syria wouldn't have happened in iraq. iraq would not are have been, in effect, drastically altered as it has been. >> when the subject of iraq comes uh up and one of the clintons is talking about it, they love it ifs it is framed as us versus dick cheney. you can see going after dick cheney is is easy. when it comes to the question of iraq, and i will talk to this later in the show, when bill clinton said if they hadn't gone to war i can hear people saying that includes hillary clinton making the vote in 2002. >> that's the sticking point. not only dizzy mrs. clinton vote for it. she's written about it in her book and had to say she made a mistake. he's asking people to relitigate his wife's vote on the iraq war. also the former vice president
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pointed out and correctly did so, former president clinton at one point in time made several comments about the fact that the difference between saddam hussein and others, hussein had weapons of mass destruction and had shown he was willing to use they will. bill clinton ordered military strikes against certain units in are iraq when saddam hussein was running the country because he refused to work with u.n. inspectors. it's muddy waters here. the audience loved to hear what the president had to say. it's a problem for his wife. >> do you think the democratic base still cares about this? >> i don't know what the democratic base still cares about it. i believe the vast majority of the country that are in the great center are tired of the finger pointing and are wondering what we are going to do about the middle east, if anything. and how will this impact us here at home? are we in any way in threat or in jeopardy as we were after 9/11? to see both sides making jokes
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about who did what and when, i think frankly will be a problem for democrats and republicans going into the midterms and going into 2016. >> all right. michelle bernard and joe watkins, thanks for joining us. up next, a bizarre story of the republican congressional candidate who was contesting his race because he thinks the guy who beat him has been dead for three years. this is "hardball," the place for politics. the day we rescued riley was a truly amazing day. he was a matted mess in a small cage. so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness.
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people even more -- >> what? >> -- crazy about another entertainment event. >> you have a dark world view. >> this is like rome. i can see why obama would love -- >> what are you talking about? >> of course when stephen colbert saw the clip he had his own reaction. watch. >> how often does barack obama run for president? every four years. how often is there a world cup? every four years. now watch this. that doesn't just happen. marijuana is clearly involved here, folks. you would have to be baked out of your gourd to be that paranoid. >> that isn't the only political conspiracy theory this week. a republican candidate for congress in oklahoma is contesting tuesday's primary results saying the winner is dead. tim murray said long time congressman frank lewis isn't qualified for office because he, quote, is no longer alive and
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has been displayed by a look alike. it is complained he was executed by the world court on or about january 11, 2011 in southern ukraine. congressman lucas said he's never even been to ukraine. despite this murray received more than 5% of the prime ary vote on tuesday. at least we think it was murray. election board officials received the complaint. he's not yet formally fired a petition to contest the election. up next, immigration reform isn't happening this year. why that could be bad news for republicans in 2016 and beyond. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. she keeps you on your toes.
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here's what's happening. defense officials say armed drones are flying surveillance
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missions over baghdad providing air cover for american adviserses in iraq in the event they come under fire. secretary of state john kerry traveled to saudi arabia meeting with the king and the head of the moderate opposition of syria. ukraine's president signed a trade deal with the e.u. the previous government backed away with that deal citing months of unrest. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." one year after the senate passed a comprehensive immigration bill with bipartisan support it looks like the chances for immigration overhaul are over. the headlines spell it out from the washington post. immigration reform effectively dead until after obama leaves office. both sides say. in the new york times, bleak prognosis from both sides of aisle in house for immigration over haul. house republicans are in the way and most political observers including republicans believe it will hurt the party in the long
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run. the hispanic vote has grown and become democratic. george bush made the biggest in-roads for republicans when he got 44% of the hispanic votes though he trailed john kerry. in 2008 barack obama won 67% to mccain's 31. in 2012, president obama got a whopping 71% of the hispanic vote to just 27% from mitt romney. republican strategist and former presidential campaign manager steve schmidt put the problem bluntly. >> the math doesn't work now for republicans. >> that's a good point. >> in state that is just the democrats have won six of six electionses. 242 the elect roll votes with 270 needed to win. every demographic group in this country that's growing, democrats are gaining market share. every demographic group that's shrinking, republicans are gaining market share. it is a are profound marketing problem. >> frank share from america's
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voice said republicans may regret it saying this is going to be one of the factorses that is going to lead to an electoral tsunami in 2016 that will not only help democrats take the white house and the senate but also retake the house. frank joins me as well as rachel smoking from politico. a quick question to set it up. the new convention nalal wisdom that immigration reform is dead in congress for summer of 2014. had the election this fall. probably decent for republicans. that's the ek expectation. no immigration reform in 15 or 16. new president. we don't know what congress will be. that's it. 2017 is the most realistic target for reform to get done. do you agree? >> yeah. as long as the house stays in republican hands we are not going to have immigration reform. it was teed up for them to regain their competitiveness with latino and asian voters. they have squandered the
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opportunity. >> what happened? we all remember after the 2012 election we put the demographic numbers up there. republicanss were shocked not only by the margin but the number of nonwhite voters that showed up. they said if they don't give on anything else this is the one thing the republican party will give on. what happened? why didn't they give? >> they stopped focusing on 2012 and 2016 and got mesmerize bid 2014. the idea is we'll have a good election. let's maximize unity, not debate over a divisive issue within the party. maybe next congress or in the future. it was wishful thinking that imperils the gop future. >> rachel, speak to the politics of it. we all understand in 2014 in midterm elections in general that new obama coalition, the rising coalition, a lot of nonwhite voters, younger voters, the expectation it is not going to turn out like 2012ment this
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is a year republicans can survive even if they don't do anything on immigration. i suspect when i listen to republicans now they also think they can survive in 2016 thinking the pob is longer term. they look at 2016 and say president obama is not on the ballot anymore. we don't think they will show up in 2016. are now picking up on that? >> both sides tend to confuse national politics with local politics. proponents of immigration reform did that after the presidential election thinking just because there was national momentum that would translate into local districts, into congressional districts which are not the same makeup as the nation as a whole. that was problem number one. they may get caught into too much of a local focus, a district focus where they will need to head for 2016 is once more a national focus. >> what about, frank, in terms of the momentum of this dying in the last few weeks. we hear about eric cantor losing
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in virginia. the debate about was immigration the issue that drove him out and by the way, lindsey graham is surviving at the same time. from a practical political standpoint did the cantor defeat, was that the straw that broke the camel's back in this? >> it hurt. i'm not sure they would do it but the cantor defeat destabilized leadership at a time when if they were going to bust a move they had to be unified and ready to move forward. honestly, i think what rachel said is true there are two-thirdses of house republicans that are in gerrymadongerr gerrymander district who don't want immigration reform. two thirds voted against it. >> how do you appeal to them? we have seen the argument of, hey, we lost 2012 the. if they are safe, how do you ever get the message across to them? how can you create self-interest for them is the question. >> well with, the age of bipartisan immigration reform is over. the fact is we are going to press the president to use his
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executive authority to protect as many immigrants as possible. then we are going to work to -- >> is he going to do that now? the other story we are talking about is house republicans are suing him saying he useses his executive authority too much. they are trying to go to court over this. probably to fore stall executive immigration action. do you think he'll go through with it in light of this? >> i think he will. they are trying to intimidate him understanding if obama protects undocumented immigrants who shouldn't be up for deportation that it will cement the distinctions between the two parties. republicans will be branded as the anti-immigrant party for a generation. democrats will be the party that delivers for immigrants. given the fast growing latino and asian-american vote arers that's a bad number for republicans. >> do you agree with frank that we have been with talking going back to the bush presidency that eventually there will have to be a bipartisan solution? democrats will give on border security. republicans will give on
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legalization or a path to citizenship. has the ship sailed? do you agree? is this something democrats will have to do unilaterally or it doesn't happen at all? >> certainly that's true for the rest of president obama's presidency. it's not going to happen many the congress. maybe he can mange changes through executive actions. as controversials as those are there will be pressure on him to do that. we'll have are to look to the next presidency whether that's a democrat or whether the politics might change, the dynamics might change in the republican house if there is a republican president. that remains to be seen. at some point those national pressures are going to come to bear once again. the combination of everything we have seen leading up to this moment ending with eric cantor's loss and the record numbers of children coming across the border has really put the nail in the coffin of immigration reform at the moment. >> i can remember right after the election in 2012. i didn't think in 2014 we would
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be here. more cynical people did and they were right. thank you. up next, turns out apart from are the opposition to president obama there is not much republicans agree on. this is "hardball," the place for politics. means keeping seven billion ctransactions flowing.g, and when weather hits, it's data mayhem. but airlines running hp end-to-end solutions are always calm during a storm. so if your business deals with the unexpected, hp big data and cloud solutions make sure you always know what's coming - and are ready for it. make it matter.
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mississippi's tea party senate candidate chris mcdaniel continues to speak out about his defeat tuesday night. in an interview with a local tv station mcdaniel said the election wasn't fair and he's gathering proof. >> this was not a fair election. activity was illegal. at worst. unethical at best. we can't have elections like that and have the people maintain their confidence in the system. >> mcdaniel says his legal team is still investigating but so far has found, "hundreds of irregularities." also today, police in mississippi said a state tea party official, one of four charged with conspiring to take photos of senator thad cochran's wife in a nursing home has apparently committed suicide. we'll be right back after this. are you ready grandma? just a second, sweetie.
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and not the kind of attention i wanted. so i had a serious talk with my dermatologist about my treatment options. this time, she prescribed humira-adalimumab. humira helps to clear the surface of my skin by actually working inside my body. in clinical trials, most adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis saw 75% skin clearance. and the majority of people were clear or almost clear in just 4 months. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal events, such as infections, lymphoma, or other types of cancer have happened. blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure have occurred. before starting humira, your doctor should test you for tb. ask your doctor if you live in or have been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. tell your doctor if you have had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have symptoms such as fever, fatigue, cough, or sores. you should not start humira if you have any kind of infection.
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make the most of every moment. ask your dermatologist about humira, today. clearer skin is possible. we are back. a new pew research stoid has some potentially alarming findings about the state of the republican party. it find it is fractures within the most active supporters aren't fractures at all. they are chasms. they are divided into business conservatives and steadfast republicans predominantly white men. 73% of them labeled immigrants as burdens. only 21% of business republicans agree. that's a 52-point gap. they are wildly opposed on the issue of gay rights with steadfast republicans supportive of the state that homosexuality
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should be discouraged. the business wing disagrees. there is a 35-point gap when it comes to policy with 55% of hardened republicans saying any foreign involvement is bad news for the country. what brings them together? the dislike of the president and anything having to do with government. the party leaderships has found reasons to do as little as it can on big yishs. how far will that take the party? perry bake and ryan grim from the huffington post. perry, what we have here are numbers. numbers that just explain the story of politics since barack obama became president and no republicans voted for the stimulus in the house and only a couple in the senate. this is the incentive system with numbers on it. why would republicans for their own survival cooperate with the with president on anything? >> the numbers are fascinating,
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steve. theyle tell you what happened in the last five years. republicans opposing everything obama has done. they also tell me about the future, too. 73% of the hard-core republicans don't want to see immigration changes and consider immigrants a burden. 74% of them believe homosexuality should be discouraged. think about it. you are the republican nominee in 2016. you have to somehow win the national vote while appealing to a group of voters who are opposed to homosexuality and consider immigrants something they don't want in the country. you have to get a majority with that. that's a huge challenge to balance out that faction with the rest of the country. >> ryan, let me ask you about that. i get what perry is saying. it makes sense. you look at the issues like he says, 73% on immigration. kwn where the public stands. there is a majority support for gay marnl and this is just being encouraged by society, i guess. ryan, let me ask you this. when barack obama became president democrats had the
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white house. they got 60 votes in the senate. they had an overwhelming majority in the house. republicans have the majority in the house they will keep for the foreseeable future. they think they could win if, y when republicans look at these numbers, you know, are they really that scared? thing vice presidehaven't gone politically the last two years. >> reporter: right. also things have gone quite well for them, quite well for them economically. you know, what you laid out is, you know, a best-case scenario for them. you know, if they could accomplish all those things, that would be great for them. but really the worst-case scenario is that's realistic is they're going to hold on to the house in november unless they shut down the government in october or something like that. which is pretty unlikely. and then in 2016, you know, it's very difficult to see democrats taking over the house, even that year, unless there's, you know, some huge hillary coattail or something along those lines. so, you know, even in the worst-case scenario, they have enough power to block change
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which is what kind of both of those camps of the gop want. so, you know, it's not actually as discouraging from that per spective as you might think at first. >> what about the tension, perry, between -- they're calling this the steadfast gop. i'd say it's sort of the tea party. although they don't apparently identify with the tea party. but the steadfast gop on the one hand, the business gop on the other hand. you have the money on the one hand and the energy on the other hand. i think we saw this week in mississippi, those two groups can really kind of -- they can't necessarily co-exist all the time. >> they really didn't. i was in mississippi. you've seen the dispute that not only came monday, tuesday, but it spilled out this week as well. the tea party folks felt like it's an outrage. how could you bring in these black democrats into vote in our primary? this is about us being, or picking the most conservative person. the business wing of the party, the kind of haley barbour, the establishment wing, they view everything in terms of winning and their view was we want to
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get over line and win this election. we will bring in democrats, he will bring in whoever we want to. that's a real core difference. the difference between sort of a real purist part of the party and a real part of the party that thinks about winning more than anything else. that division is going to come through again. that's why mitt romney in 2012 had to say he was so opposed to immigration reform to get the nomination. the question is not is a tea party president going to win the nomination in 2016, but probably more how much does an establishment person have to appeal to the tea party to get the nomination in the first place? >> well, so ryan, one area of agreement between these two wings, what is the disapproval rating for president obama? see it up there. 94% for republicans among the steadfast gop, 96% among the business gop. i guess i wonder, you can see some of the other ones up there, too. i guess i wonder how much of this can get resolved within the republican party simply by president obama leaving office? when that's the biggest source of agreement there? >> well, if he's replaced by hillary clinton, then they have
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another boogiewoman there. a lot of people define themselves by what they're opposed to. that's not unique to republicans or either of these groups here. so they could just continue to define themselves based on their opposition to hillary clinton. >> right. yeah, that's what he saw, too. i mean, when bill clinton was president in the 1990s, i imagine those numbers were about the same. anyway, sorry, we're out of time. i want to thank perry bacon, ryan grim. appreciate the time. when we return, why a short memory can be useful in politics. vity, so you can enjoy your favorite music. mom! mom! mom! mom! mom! mom! hi mom. and a multi-flex sliding rear seat, for your passenger's comfort and your own. start your summer off right and get this 2014 chevy equinox ls for around $199 per month. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. crestor lowered bad cholesterol in it's a fact. high-risk patients more than lipitor.
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finally, let me finish tonight with the war of words between bill clinton and dick cheney over iraq. we showed the video earlier. the form e president tell an audience in denver if they, cheney and bush, hadn't gone to war in iraq, none of this sectarian violence and chaos would be playing out right now. what stuck out to me, what happened when bill clinton said that. the crowd erupted in cheers. i know, this was a clinton audience at a cgi event. these are clinton fans. you could also read it as the democratic base. for anyone who remembers the 2008 primaries, this made it a noteworthy moment. a democratic audience cheering a clinton on the subject of iraq. because, of course, iraq was more than any other issue, the one that stopped hillary in 2008. the one that gave purpose to barack obama's campaign that ruined what everyone started out assuming would be an easy clinton restoration. hillary and bill, for that matter, could criticize cheney and bush all they wanted over the conduct of the war in 2008,
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but always the question kept coming back. okay, how come you voted for it? hillary had no good answer for that. she couldn't bring herself to say it was a mistake. the thing is, all these years later, she still hasn't really answered the question. in her new book she does use the word "mistake" to describe her 2002 vote for the iraq juarez loos war resolution. she thought she was giving george w. bush a diplomatic tool. i remember the vote well and no one thought it was anything other than a major step in the march to war in iraq. both clintons, though, have had a difficult relationship with the subject of iraq and war for a long time now. back in 1991, when the first president bush was about to launch the first gulf war, bill clinton was gearing up to run for president. bush went to congress for authorization. the debate was intense. the vote was close. most democrats were against it. back in arkansas, clinton tried to avoid taking the position until finally on the eve of the war, after congress had
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authorized it, he was put on the spot. "i guess i would have voted with the majority if it was a close vote," he said, "but i agree with the arguments the minority made. of course the first gulf war ended up being the quote/unquote good gulf war. we kicked saddam out of kuwait, didn't take casualties, and came home fast. there were parades after that war. bush's approval rating soared. only then did clinton boast he had been for the war from the beginning. became one of his selling points when he beat bush in 1992. memory of how easy the '91 gulf war was or how easy it seemed shaped the decisions of members of congress when the 2002 vote came up. maybe hillary was one of them. tough to say. we haven't gotten a full accounting of why she cast that vote and what she's learned from the war. maybe we'll never get one. six years passed since 2008. memories fade. questions get forgotten.
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fr grudges tend to fizzle out. bill clinton got the heads nodding and career cheering by pinning the war only on bush and cheney. all these years later, maybe the democrats are done blaming anyone else. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. president obama is trying to use the bully pulpit to halt the growing humanitarian crisis on the border. the influx of unaccompanied minors. >> our message absolutely is don't send your children unaccompanied on trains or through a bunch of smugglers. we don't even know how many of these kids don't make it and may have been waylaid into sex trafficking or killed because they fell off a train. we have no way of tracking that. so that is our direct message to the families in central america. do not send your children to the

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